MohammadReza Ghanei in conversation with Negar Hakim

BEING CONCERNED WITH CONTINUITY AND ENDURANCE IN PERSIAN ARCHITECTURE

I’d like to begin my questions by asking about one of your projects currently under construction. The Central Office for Isfahan Municipality is a good example for providing a quick view of Polsheer consultants and their concerns. Not only the site of the project is special, it is very delicate with regards to the municipality of a city which considers itself heir to a traditional Iranian-Islamic architecture. Naturally and definitely such a delicate concern did exist. After the unsuccessful experiences of Isfahan Municipality in projects such as Jahannama Tower, such concerns escalated. They know well that the main core of the city and Naghsh-e- Jahan Square are listed as World Cultural Heritage sites and there is a special sensitivity regarding the surrounding texture. Polsheer was experienced in working in historical textures. Moreover, such projects -particularly within such a texture- need on the one hand to be contemporary, and on the other, to avoid going against the historical context. As such, due to municipality’s familiarity with our outlook, quality of work and experience, they invited us to design this project. Few offices have spent so much time ‘understanding’ Persian traditional architecture.

Then let us hold the discussion for a moment regarding ‘understanding’ Iranian traditional architecture and go to the early years of your professional career in the 80s when you returned to Iran after finishing your studies. Can we say that the 27-years-old MohammadReza Ghanei was interested in understanding, using and deriving inspiration from traditional Iranian constructions? Absolutely. Although buildings are embodiments of architects’ inquiries, I was convinced from the very beginning that build- ings in any country reflect a spiritual aspect which is different from the physical appearance. One might claim architecture is writing poetry in space. It is true that a poet’s poem consists of words and an architect makes use of a number of ele- ments in his work, yet these are just ‘tools’ for presenting an art which is more than a juxtaposition of words or arrange- ment of elements. To do it, contemporary poets need a proper understanding of the classical literature of their country, the same way architects need to be aware of the efforts of their ancestors. They should be familiar with the totality of spaces and knowledgeable with regards to the details of elements. It is only through such familiarity that architects can start to solve the problems of their time and engage with ‘continuity’.

Polsheer Consulting Engineers was founded in 1981 in Isfahan focusing from the very beginning on a new reading of Iranian architecture. The result of three decades of Polsheer’s profes- sional career is the design of more than 200 projects in a wide spectrum ranging from public and private commercial build- ings and offices to renovating old urban fabrics and designing research facilities in technology parks and scientific complexes. Addressing an Iranian audience and presenting Iranian spaces mark the designs of Mohammad Reza Ghanei and his team.

ستاد مركزي شهرداري اصفهانCentral office for Isfahan Municipality

This was the very challenge and path I chose for myself from the very beginning.

Of course that decade we are discussing enjoyed a distinct characteristic and zeitgeist: it was the time of postmodernism and its ‘repercussions’ in the West. Naturally, the discussions regarding postmodernism brought about opportunities for young Iranian architects of the time, that’s for sure. Yet, personally, I have always tried to pre- vent my work from being reduced to an imitation of western movements and rather to be an attempt at returning to Iranian architecture. However, I have not been ignorant of the devel- opments of and movements in the world architecture.

Which movements did you follow more closely and which architects influenced you most? At that time, my viewpoint was mostly influenced by architects concerned with regionalism. During my studies, I followed Louis Kahn’s work with great interest due to his special atten- tion to this topic and his courage in using popular material. In general, those figures with the courage of speaking their mind were attractive to me as well as certain Spanish architects who paid attention to traditional architecture and its elements, or figures from Latin America who were attentive to the nature, culture and the demands of their society. Regarding Japan, I liked the works of many architects maybe because they were among the first nonwestern architects who achieved their own contemporary architectural style, including Kenzo Tange. To these, Renzo Piano should also be added who was particularly interesting for me.

In Rowghani’s House as one of your early works, one can see an interest in traditional construction. Can one say that in this project the focus of the young architect was to learn the ‘terms’ of this architecture? Rowghani’s House was one of the first experiments in that di- rection. I saw myself at the beginning of the road. Moreover, at that time I had no skills in presenting what I thought was ours and can be called Persian Architecture. I tried to use this first project as a chance for developing a better understanding of Iranian traditional architecture. Of course, apart from learning the elements and decorations of traditional architecture, I was equally concerned with presenting an Iranian design. Accord- ing to regulations, I had to design the building on 60 percent of the area on the north of the land. I remember the first question I asked myself was how one can create a traditional space with such limitation. Finally, Hasht Behesht building served as my model for this design.

Looking back at the discussions common in the years following the revolution, it seems that the architectural scene was far from a consensus with regards to the physical arrangement of what is called Persian Architec- ture. In such a context, Isfahan Polyacryl Building with its

ساختمان پلي اكريل، اصفهانPolyacryl Building, Isfahan

ساختمان دفتر پلشير، اصفهانPolsheer Consultants Office, Isfahan

incongruent façade was built next to the historical Khajoo Bridge. Polyacryl Building was the result of a limited competition whose client’s brief was restricted to a condensed 60 percent mass which is originally a western regulation. In the design we tried to cross the red line by proposing juxtaposition of a linear ar- rangement and an open space which allows on the one hand to organise the urban façade and on the other to create an interior space. Linear strips had a history of their own in Isfahan. One can see their examples in Gheysariyyeh Bazaar or Khajoo Bridge. In such a model, the architects used to arrange all spaces around a single axis. Many architectural elements are not exclusive to Iran. Examples of such linear strips or even the Ivan, arcade, square, courtyard and many other architectural elements could be found in other places of the world. Yet, Ira- nian ‘types’ are distinguished by their form, proportions or even colours. Other characteristics such as introversion or extrover- sion are also important add to it. One should get to know such distinctions and gain a comprehensive knowledge of them. A serious concern for the proper use of such ‘knowledge’ can fi- nally result in constructions that the viewer would consider ‘Ira- nian’. Because this design was close to to the Zayandehrood River and Khajoo Bridge, we really tried to preserve the urban proportions. The goal was to create a balanced and equal dia- logue between the building and the city and its citizens.

The project also attracted the attention of clients including the governmental. At that time, you described your works as follows: ‘according to their creator they belong to “us” and “here” and reflect the true essence of Iranian/Islamic essence.’ Was the term ‘true’ not targeting such clients? Look, an artist should speak according to his beliefs unaffected by the client’s opinion. As explained in the beginning, finding such essence in Iranian-Islamic architecture was a unique chal- lenge which I set for myself. The goal was always ‘dynamism’

In search of such continuity several competitions were held in the 60s. One of the most distinguishable ones was the Academies of Islamic Republic of Iran in which you also participated. Afterwards, you wrote a critique in Abadi magazine claiming, ‘If there is courage, it is not in design- ing lofty buildings rather in choosing the model which rarely attracts architects’ attention.’ Which model did you mean here? And what was it that the architects dared not to do? This question has several aspects. Let us first look at the conditions of those years, particularly the postwar years. We need to know the context of the time. At the end of the 60s for the first time the architectural scene gradually found the chance to reflect upon ways of extending social developments to architectural discourse, something that was not possible before due to the destructive nature of the war. These were the years of development. The first question facing all those active in the field (both architects and clients) was how to physically realise a style of architecture with Iranian/Islamic identity. The key problem was to determine the type of architecture which suited best our religious and cultural revolution. One can claim the architectural scene was searching for an architectural style which could serve as a model for its own time. This was a de- sire to begin a new period, an Iranian-Islamic period in line with other periods such the Safavid, Pahlavid or the Qajarid. How- ever, there were different views regarding the ways in which such Islamic-Iranian period could be constructed. A variety of answers were given. On one end of the spectrum was a mass of shallow thoughts. On the other, there was the viewpoint of those such as Hadi Mirmiran who believed ‘whatever an Iranian architect designs cannot be anything but Iranian architecture!’ In this vast spectrum, I personally tried to follow at Polsheer the idea of understanding ‘Iranian spaces’. In that competition there

سلف سرويس دانشگاه يزدYazd University Canteen

كانون وكلاي اصفهانIsfahan Bar Association

were designs which were very similar. I thought the criteria should not be glamour and pompousness particularly because it was about designing the Iranian Academy. As the Persian saying goes, the wiser the man, the humbler is.

Before moving to other projects let us discuss one point in detail. Your office is distinguished by its location which is a Safavid building. There were several motivations behind such a choice of place: one the one hand, I believed working in such a building as an exemplary space would have a positive effect on the whole Polsheer team, considering the fact that the new generation is less familiar with such spaces if not completely alien. On the other hand it gave a clear message to the clients for a better understanding of our preferences, or one can even say obses- sions. Moreover, I was interested in preserving and renovating such historical buildings. Today, we take pride in the fact that we are located in a building for the renovation of which we won the UNESCO Award 2002.

Let us return to architecture. The high number of projects from the very early days indicates that your office suc- ceeded in filling a gap in the architectural scene of those years. Of course such a gap still persists. Polshir has had the privi- lege of being active in two parallel contexts: to design projects deep in the core of the historical textures of cities such as Isfahan, Kerman and the like and to undertake projects in new contexts such as the Scientific Research Towns or Technol- ogy Parks. Probably the reason behind the high number of simultaneous projects lies in Polshir’s parallel view at the past, present and future.

The design for Yazd University Canteen is one of the most distinguished projects of Polshir in that period. However, an ‘instrumental use of symbolic forms’ and ‘direct reno-

vations’ are among the critiques made of your works in this period. One might agree to such critiques in a superficial reading. Yet, consider that such projects pertain to the first phase of the of- fice. Each project should be seen in the context of the zeitgeist of the period in which it is done. In those years, we wanted to test a connection with the past combined with application of new technologies. Although we might not repeat it today, it was an important experience and a step in the correct path. As a result of it we progressed in the next projects with more confi- dence. From such a viewpoint I consider them successful.

In the 90s, a shift in viewpoint and a new approach can be detected in Polshir’s projects. The most prominent work of this period is Sadri’s House which won the Memar Award and was a joint project with Ali Sheikholeslam. The 90s was a decade when we came up, after a period of 5-6 years, with a better understanding of the spaces and elements of our architecture. Therefore, in Sadri’s House we tried to present an interpretation of how it was in the past. In its spatial quality, the design had a fluidity which came very close to our residential architecture.

Yes. I remember Hadi Mirmiran who was the judge of the award believed that, ‘If there is an essence to Persian houses, this building is close to it, particularly to the spa- tial essence of popular rural houses.’ In that period, we came up with this conclusion that based upon our familiarity with that architecture we are able to give a more contemporary to the problem, one which is not necessar- ily in form of an arrangement of well-known forms or an interest in decoration. Although simpler and devoid of visual details, the works of this period are able to relate to their viewers due to their focus on spaces. The design was received as a ‘familiar alien’. On the one hand, it was a new reading, on the other, the building, as mentioned before, could come close to the spatial

essence of Iranian residential architecture.

In describing Poshir’s designs of this period, ‘refined ver- nacular spaces’ are repeatedly mentioned. What was this refinement and how was it achieved? For instance, the model upon which the spatial arrangement of the Isfahan Bar Association was based was the Yazd Friday Mosque, particularly the Pupil Minaret. I had always consid- ered the spatial structure of this minaret and its indirect lighting as a valuable model and coordinate in Persian architecture. Apart from the story about the superiority of the pupil to the master, there is a lesson to be learnt from it which reveals the dynamism of our ancestor’s architecture. In this minaret, the young architect has created an endless and infinite movement through the intertwining of two currents in space. The light- ing of the minaret is also done on the basis of interior lighting from above. The Bar Association project was created through refinement of such a movement and intertwining of spaces. Particularly, in its lighting we tried to divert natural light step by step to different layers instead of receiving direct lighting from the outside because I believe as transparency is one of the characteristics of Western architecture, multi-layering and com- plexity are also qualities of Iranian construction. As such, in this design light comes from a central high source goes round the middle core and down to the final destination passing through different layers. Therefore, despite its new expression, the space leaves a familiar impression on the viewer.

In the works pertaining to the 80s, it seems that an obses- sive attention to the choice of construction material (which was less in the previous periods) increases in Polsheer designs. For instance, one can refer to the crucial role ascribed to material in Isfahan Library. Of course colour and material are on the lower layers of archi- tecture. Design begins with a dream then turns into imagina- tion and finally into concrete reality. However, the designer’s view always remains dreamlike and the material is a set of instruments giving colours to dreams. In Isfahan Central City Library I claimed to have done an attempt at adding colour to the black and white urban society. The design aimed at future and its young addressees. We live in a rationalist world where individuals become globalised in their youth due to their power of creativity and knowledge. Therefore, libraries as symbols of this period must be attractive and inviting both to laymen and the youth. My instrument for such invitation was the use of proper colour and material. The material used in this project soon became exemplary and turned into a model for much of the construction across Isfahan. Such copying finally helped to

give colour to the black and white image of the city and even to rest of our country.

We live in a time when postmodern architecture in its western style has run out of steam. Can one claim that the steam of a conciliatory outlook at Iranian traditional and modern architecture will soon run out as well? In the past years we have been trying to produce new works that would be rooted in us. That’s why I don’t think something like this can possibly run out of steam. On the contrary, I be- lieve that as our experience increases it will add to the steam. In my eyes, it results from self-confidence. We don’t consider ourselves indebted to postmodernism. Don’t forget that archi- tecture is different from sculpture. In the art of architecture, mere form and appearance cannot be the criteria. In literature, learning words comes first. Then comes the turn to utter simple sentences. Later prose and poetry are introduced. Similar to literature, architecture succeeds when it creates passion in its addressees. It would be superficial to say that Iranian artists do not have the power of thinking global and acting local. I don’t see a contradiction between the two.

However, on the subject of architecture and identity there are two important points to consider. One is the dynamism of architecture itself and the other is collective memory. We also have a young generation who are not familiar with traditional architecture. Yes, the familiarity of younger generations with our traditional architecture has declined. Moreover, I agree that most of urban constructions are vulgar copies of secondhand western architecture. However, the art of architecture and the task of an architect should be correctly defined. One cannot deny the relationship between this art and its cultural roots. I mean we should be pragmatic and put aside nostalgic discussions. We are Iranian and live in Iran. This is not something nostalgic. It has certain qualities which the society feels. It is true that the Iranians of the Ilkhanid period were different from that of the Safavid or Qajarid period or today. However, a kind of continu- ity persists.

In the end, I wanted bring up the issue continuity once again. Do you think one can expect the youth of tomorrow to be a proper addressee for Iranian architecture? This continuity is inherent and undeniable. It is not something that can be erased in future generations. No doubt that Persian Poetry will also persist and continue. Therefore, if architecture and its relationship to culture are defined properly some time in future, I wouldn’t worry about anything else!

Housing Bank, Main Branch of Isfahan

Isfahan Registeration Head Quarter

The Iranian Embassy in Amman, Jordan

Zaman Garden Residential Complex

Yazd University of Medical Sciences

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